A Q&A with Lucas Kunce—the Populist Anti-War Marine Taking on Josh Hawley
"It’s time we’ve had real populism in this state." Meet Lucas Kunce, the man challenging Republican Senator Josh Hawley in 2024
On January 6, Lucas Kunce announced his bid to challenge Republican Senator Josh Hawley in Missouri. An anti-war marine and anti-monopolist attorney, Kunce narrowly lost in the 2022 Missouri Democratic Senate primaries to Busch heiress Trudy Busch Valentine. The loss wasn’t all for nothing. Kunce built up a pretty robust grassroots campaign infrastructure during the last run, and now hopes it can help him rise to take on Hawley. I spoke with Kunce on the day of his campaign launch about his humble beginnings, his policy focus, and what is firing him up to take on Hawley.
This interview was edited for length and clarity.
What was sort-of formative for you growing up, what kinds of things prompted you to even consider getting involved in politics?
I grew up in Jeff City. It was a working class neighborhood, nobody had any money, everybody took care of each other. It's the Missouri spirit. My high school cross country coach bought me shoes because I could only afford one pair of shoes every year and I was getting injured. He never told anybody, he wasn’t doing it for any attention, he just wanted to make sure I wasn’t hurt. When my little sister was born and had an open heart surgery, my family went bankrupt. We made it because the people in that neighborhood came by our house, brought us more tuna casseroles than we could eat. They helped us when my parents and sister were in St. Louis, about two hours away, for all these surgeries. Everybody took me and my siblings into their homes to take care of us. I grew up in this beautiful place where everybody took care of each other, and I want to spend my life trying to pay that back.
You focus a lot on charity and service—whether your military service, or service from your neighbors. How do these imbue into your politics?
Generally, everyday people do the right things. You see that on ballot measures [legalizing marijuana, rejecting right-to-work laws, increasing the minimum wage and expanding Medicaid], you see that growing up, you see that neighbors helping each other out. I tell you, if I mention in a room in Missouri, about when my little sister was sick and people brought more tuna casserole by the house than we could ever eat, every person in the room gets that because they’ve been a part of that on one side or the other. And so for me, it’s about getting power back to people and trusting everyday people. That's the exact opposite of Josh Hawley—this guy's all about power for himself. We're launching on January 6 because it's a great example of what a fraud he is. When he thought it was gonna bring him power, he's raising his fist, he’s riling everybody up and then the second shit gets real and hits the fan, he’s running for the exits. I’ll tell ya what, in the Marine Corps, that gets your ass court-martialed. I think it’s time for the Missouri people to court martial him and tell him he doesn’t have the job anymore. That's what it comes down to: empowering everyday people to make sure that we can do that.
It seems like you've had time to think about some things.
Well, I mean, it's creeps like Josh Hawley who will say and do anything to get what they want. He pretends to be your average guy, he was a fraud on January 6 obviously, but like a creepy thing about him is just how much control he wants over people’s lives. He wants to control what you do in the bedroom, in the doctor’s office, when and where and how you work. He's got a book coming out on masculinity defining exactly what it means to him to be a man and he wants everybody to be born in his own image. Like, it's crazy. It's creepy, it's gross, and it's weird. That’s just it, people should be able to decide their own paths. They shouldn't have generic career politicians like Josh Hawley telling ‘em how to live and making ‘em live a certain way.
What have you been reflecting on since your last primary loss in 2022 against Trudy Busch Valentine?
I think about what our team did, and honestly if you'd asked anybody at the very beginning, they'd have been shocked we accomplished what we did. I’m a nobody from Jefferson, my dad wasn't a bank president, I wasn't an heir to a great fortune. I spent 13 years in the Marine Corps, right? I didn't have political connections. And the sad truth of the American political system right now is that having those types of connections and having money is almost everything. So during that campaign we started from scratch, we had to build out a massive grassroots base of support, and figure out how someone with none of those things could actually build a successful campaign. By the end, we had a record-breaking grassroots fundraising movement. So all that work we did during the last campaign, that all goes into this next campaign. And so I'm excited that, as an everyday Missourian, I can provide a template for others even on how to do this. I think we did a great job and I'm looking forward to seeing us continue to build on that and hopefully inspire others to do it too.
Trump won Missouri in 2020 by 15 points. Your primary opponent Valentine lost by 13 in 2022. Hawley beat McCaskill by about six. How are you approaching this race?
In 2016, Trump won by more than he did in 2020—like 19, 20 points. And Jason Kander only lost by three points. And so, Missourians will split their ticket. I mean when Claire McCaskill lost by six points, our State Auditor, Nicole Galloway, won by six points. So, Missouri, you know, it’s the “Show-Me” state. You gotta show them what you stand for. And I've been able to show people what I stand for—I'm proud of my record. And Josh Hawley, he hasn’t had to run since he’s shown everybody what he is: either a coward, a fraud, someone who’s not gonna bring any money into the state, someone who doesn't do anything for the rest of us, he just wants to be president—that's what we're up against.
Tell me about your thoughts on war, and energy.
I went to war in Iraq, a war for oil. I watched our country spend trillions over there for nothing and if we spent that money instead investing in the next generation of energy, we’d be fully clean and electric and ready to go. The way to win wars is to not have them in the first place, and some of that comes from real independence and not going overseas to fight wars for corporations so they can have access to natural resources.
That's power man. Making America stronger, making us energy independent, having control of our supply chain, that is real national security; that’s security for everyday people, that's good job security, that’s security on energy, that everything that we want. If we can show people that's the way and we become exporters of future energies, then we get to create the conversation, we have control of the marketplace, and we get to have influence and spread democracy through our economics. And we stopped doing that a long time ago. Economists thought if we go put a bunch of money in corporations into China, that’s gonna spread democracy—it didn't work that way, right? Because what we did was off-shore production and make ourselves reliant. What we need to do is spread power through economic actions that make America more independent and more able to not just get beaten down in foreign wars.
More and more people are unionizing nationwide. What’s on your mind?
I mean we need to pass the PRO Act so that Americans have the right to organize and get back some of the power that they have lost as union membership has gone down and as corporations made it so that they can really attack union drives. Non-compete agreements the FTC is looking at right now…if people don't have the power to switch jobs, and we don't have competition in the workplace, it’s just like not having competition in the marketplace. You can't better your life, you can't go somewhere else and get trapped.
I know what that looks like: I watched my dad work the same job he first took out of college all the way until he retired. And he was trapped because of medical insurance, right? He couldn't leave that job because the insurance covered the health bills for my little sister who had a heart condition. And so to watch one of the smartest, most entrepreneurial men I've ever met stay in the same job his entire life because he had to have health care, that's crazy! That's not a good use of our resources, that stifles innovation in America, and it's not good for workers who essentially just feel trapped and imprisoned. And so there's thousands of issues, but what I’m talking about is the freedom to organize, the freedom to choose where you work, the freedom to not worry about if your employer is going to give you the healthcare benefits that you deserve, right, like the freedoms we lose because our system is made and designed so corporations have more power than everyday people.
Some people are hearing about you for the first time, others are revisiting you. What would you like to tell them?
I want to change who has power in this country. I think the path we're on right now has been caused by corrupt politicians who took money from the wrong people and are letting those folks strip our communities to parts. And if you look at Missouri, this is the frontline in the fight for democracy: people have been hurting, and have been looking for someone to blame. And people like Josh Hawley—fake politicians—have been pointing their finger at all the wrong folks. It’s time we’ve had real populism in this state, not fake populism—someone who knows how the average Missouri grew up, which was was paycheck to paycheck, and one disaster from bankruptcy. Someone who understands how Missourians can take care of them, and wants to give them power back, and isn’t obsessed with controlling every aspect of their life like Josh Hawley.
What music are you listening to? What things are you reading?
I’ve been re-reading Lord of the Rings. Kinda nerdy, but hey, I play Magic: The Gathering, no shame. I’m jamming my classic country playlist. All the greats: Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings, Merle Haggard. And for TV, I did just watch Wednesday. I like to watch TV when I work out and Wednesday was the latest. I really liked it, I thought it was really good. I always follow Matt Stoller’s BIG Substack. I think it’s really good, he really exposes a lot of the ways our economy has been consolidated and what it does to everyday people.
Kunce is running to take on Hawley in 2024, after four years of Biden. Conventional political wisdom would tell us this bodes poorly for a Democrat challenging a Republican incumbent, no less in a state that seems to have voted pretty solidly Republican as of late. But Kunce is right that, at least, the state’s results can be a little idiosyncratic. And given the mythic 2022 red wave never happened as it were predicted, maybe there’s a little room for skepticism of conventional wisdoms.
Meanwhile, the Republican party is just getting increasingly more out of touch with millions of people who, at their highest ambitions, yearn for a stronger government that they feel a part of, that takes care of them. And at least, they just want leaders who don’t come off as conspiratorial hacks who want to control their bodies and lives. Republicans fall far short of reaching that first ambition, and, for the life of them, can’t seem to even meet the second more generous one.
Aside from Republican deficiencies, Kunce really does appear a decent person with humble beginnings in the state he genuinely seems to want to advocate for. He is advocating a politics in which people—neighbors, friends, families—feel empowered enough to help each other grow and live fulfilling lives, all while being supported by a government that ensures they each have the means to do so at all. And if there’s any hope left to be had in politics, it’s in exactly such a vision: one that can mend polarization, without compromising to the same corporate, dehumanizing forces that helped foster it at all.
Yes, Democrats face a pretty difficult election map in 2024. But maybe one of their strongest beacons relaying an actual expectation-shattering message is one determinedly shining in the middle of America. Kunce’s focus on bringing both economic and social power back to people could help Democrats not only compete again in states like Missouri, but also articulate a better, more affecting message that demands a better, more effective government.
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